I think Tavi is dying from poisoning, but I'm having a tough time finding what the symptoms of poisoning are.

If insecticide were introduced to a tank, how long would it take to harm the fish?

He moved into his new 6g tank on March 3.  No measurable ammonia so far.  Temp 78, Whisper filter, planted with rotala, java moss, anacharis, java fern, GH 10-11, pH 8.0.

I had some extra gravel (rinsed to use in another tank) sitting outside.  We had someone spray for bugs outside in January; no spraying of any kind inside.  I accidentally left the bucket with the gravel out on the patio.  Some of the gravel was still in its plastic bag from when I bought it; I had cut one of the corners and rinsed the gravel while still in the bag.

I took some of bagged gravel, about a cup or two, rinsed it again several times, soaked it in boiling water for about 20 minutes and left it spread out on to dry for a couple of days; it got morning sunlight through my kitchen window.  I thought this was a good cleaning.

I added this gravel to Tavi's new tank last Wednesday, when I added an Amazon Sword and three big springs of Anacharis (disinfected with 5-6X dose of JCW).

Saturday, Tavi was acting kind of lethargic, but he looked ok and was eating normal; he even barked at me a couple of times, like normal.  Yesterday, he ate in the morning but hid all day, either behind a sword leaf or on his gravel.  Today, I couldn't get him to come up for food and he looked off.  Because I thought it was poisoning, I set up my 2g Q/T and put transferred him two hours ago.  He didn't swim around, he went toward the heater; he is now face down, gill movement labored, dark stripes along his whole body.  He's kind of listing with the current from the bubbler, not trying to swim.

OMG, what have I done to him??  I cannot think of what else could have caused this.

Last edited by becca on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

I don't know that it is poisoning, although I can appreciate why you have made that conclusion.

What kind of filtration is in HT?  Any aeration?  I would want to keep things circulating to help him clean out his system so to speak.

Um, HT=home tank?  hospital tank?  His home, a 6.6g has a Whisper filter (I'm not liking the design of the filter but that's a different topic).  

The Q/T has a small bubbler near the heater to help provide aeration and circulation . . . although he has stayed on the heater/bubbler end of the tank.  He is still face down against the bottom, his face is just skimming the bottom, listing with the small current from the bubbler.  

I hated to move him but he looked so bad that I thought it best to get him into pristine fresh treated water immediately.  He didn't really try to get away from me.

I would like to get a closer look at his gills but I don't think I can without stressing him out more.

There are some silk plants at the other end and a hidey in the middle.

EDIT:  What else could this be?

I think that if it were poisoning, he would've shown the effects very shortly after being put into the tank, and unless the effects were devastating, should have showed at least some minor improvement after hours in clean water. Even a betta half-dead from ammonia poisoning will perk up some after he's had a couple of hours in good water. The gravel was in plastic and you did rinse it well; even if it had been exposed to insecticide and some small amount remained, it surely wouldn't be much. That looks to me like something that's been going on for a while; see how thin his body looks (viewed from the top/bottom, in comparison to his head)? I know you feed your fishies very well, so he's surely not starving, but he doesn't look like a healthy, well-muscled betta boy. Something is going on, that's for sure, but I'd doubt it's poisoning. I think more likely something internal that he's had all along, just catching up with him. Maybe a low-grade infection, maybe some kind of parasite, maybe just a genetic weakness--I don't know.
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You are right, I had noticed he seemed thinner than Boomer who is really the only other live model for me.

In his prior tank, he liked to hide in his plants pretty often so I thought that might explain the leaner body (as opposed to Bucking Boomer who cruises around all day).

The only other unusual-looking thing with him is the bright redness and single red vertical stripes on his gill covers (referenced in my recent post about Serena).  Could those be symptoms of something?

At this point, since he's not interested in coming to the surface, would you try any medication?  I have M/M2, Kanaplex, some of the Jungle meds . . . ?  

There's been no change so far except he's drifted into the hidey.

The red on his gills could certainly be normal colour. See where Amy has the two light bars on her operculum? That's a spot where it's normal to see red on bettas of many colours (some show two bars, others only one). Amy's happened to be light, but could as easily have been red like Jackie Blue, or Liv, or 3.2...Buck even has "red on red" (he's red himself, but his bars are a different shade).



The colouring can change when bettas get wound up, as you can see in Liv and Amy's "anything boys can do, grrrrls can...." flare fest:



If that's where you see the red, then that's nothing to do with anything besides his colour.

I don't think it would be wise to medicate him, since any diagnosis would be nothing more than a wild guess and giving him the wrong medication could put enough stress on him to kill him outright. He's not telling us anything more than, "I'm a sick little fishie", and unfortunately, there's no treatment for undiagnosed conditions.
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Everything's better with penguins.

I know you're right, even as I typed that I knew the right answer.  Just a very sad mom feeling horribly, horribly helpless.

He's more horizontal now, along the bottom.  Sometimes it looks like he's struggling.  I've seen him roll slowly onto his side, then onto his back, and he struggles to make himself upright again.

His red bars are like where Amy's are, and the redness is like Amy in the 2nd picture.

I'll just stay with him and watch him.  I sure do not want him to suffer if there's no hope of getting better, though.

I am so sorry about your boy

No matter what happens, Sandee, Tavi already has more than he could have expected if you'd not come along. I know exactly how you feel because I've been there myself more than once, but all we can do is our best, and I know that a fishie in your care gets the best. Boomer is alive because you care so much about them; if there were anything more you could do for Tavi, I know you'd do it without hesitation.
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Everything's better with penguins.

I'm so sorry to hear this Sandee. I'll be keeping Tavi in my prayers. Please stop beating yourself up about this. You've given him the best care that you can and you're a wonderful mama. I know how hard and how sad this is for you and I completely understand. I'm good at blaming myself when one of my fish gets sick too. I drive myself nuts by going over and over everything in my mind. My best friend tells me that I'm the queen of "shoulda woulda coulda." (I should've done this or that, If I would've done this or that, or I could've done this or that.) I'll be hoping and praying that Tavi will be alright. He's a beautiful boy and I know he's very special to you.

Kathleen
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" There are no shortcuts to any place worth going."

Beverly Sills

I realized he wasn't improving and I did not know what we were dealing with . . . his behavior was telling me that he was suffering.  So I filled a margerine tub with water and put it in the freezer.  It was difficult for me to watch what he was going through; but I thought it would be better for Tavi if I left him alone for a little while.  When I came back, Tavi had died.

Y'know, with everything with Boomer and Serena, I never expected I would be saying goodbye to Tavi first.

Tavi came into my life about 2 months ago, on January 2.  I will miss his rude table manners (he frequently bit onto the end of his spoon and I would have to wait for him to let go), his wiggle dances and barking, his graceful, flowing fins, and his unusual lavendar/pink/red coloring.  Most of all, I will miss the way he always met my finger each time I touched the wall of his tank, like he was nuzzling me.

Here is one of my favorite pictures of him.

Swim free, my sweet little Tavi.  I love you and I miss you so very much.

I'm very sorry, Sandee. It's so easy to get attached to these li'l guys. My guys in Fishie Heaven will take good care of Tavi and make sure that bad grrrrl Amy doesn't smooch his fish lips right off.
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Everything's better with penguins.

I am so sorry!  

I'm so sorry Sandee. Your beautiful Tavi has gone to join Serena in fishie Heaven now along with all of her new friends. He knew how much you loved him and how well you took care of him. Rest in peace Tavi. Swim free in the galaxy now.

Kathleen
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" There are no shortcuts to any place worth going."

Beverly Sills

Thanks everyone.  I think I am still stunned that he's gone.  I decided to "nuke" his tank.  I rearranged it a bit and got it up and running on Tuesday afternoon but it looks so lonely without him.  

I thought, very briefly, about not getting anymore fishies because this hurts so much.  But that thought didn't last very long, cuz, hey, afterall, I'm a bettaholic . . . and proud of it!